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  #401  
Old February 19, 2019, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by al Furqaan
I'm all for everyone paying SOME taxes. But you can't expect Apple CEO who probably makes 20 million dollars a year salary (maybe even more than that) to pay the same amount as a kid who works at Duane Reade.
Again I never said this. You assume a lot and put words in others that were never said or meant. the idea is the bottom workers should feel the tax burden just like the top feel in order to enjoy the benefits of infrastructure of USA.


Quote:
You're right I made the asssumption, but it was a spot on assumption.
No I think you read what you want to read instead of what is being written. The example of free college (a priviledge not a right) is chosen to show you the platform the social progressive are running on. i am not choosing it willy nily. You are right I could have chosen any other example, like Universal basic income etc etc that they also run on. And the plan to provide these are to have higher taxes for anyone with half decent income and up.
I did bring up I support medicare for all only if cost are cut and everyone pays into the system. Same can be for college. Any expansion of social programs will cost money. Reform is the key. In my opinion USA healthcare can be reformed to a better system with much less cost. If you keep feeding the broken system it will never get fixed.

If your progressive candidates want to talk about cutting military spending. Sounds good to me. But that's not gonna get them votes because that feels anti-American. Do you know who mentioned waste of money fighting others war in presidential debate. Bingo... Donald Trump.
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  #402  
Old February 19, 2019, 11:42 AM
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  #403  
Old February 19, 2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
If your progressive candidates want to talk about cutting military spending. Sounds good to me. But that's not gonna get them votes because that feels anti-American. Do you know who mentioned waste of money fighting others war in presidential debate. Bingo... Donald Trump.
Yes but Donald Trump is still threatening to go back to Syria if need be. Actually he hasn't even left yet. Trump is still giving money to billions to Israel and although they cut funds to the Palestinians, the US just announced 60 million or something for the Rohingyas. So Trump's promises are irrelevant because he will say anything and his fanbase will swallow everything.

Quote:
the idea is the bottom workers should feel the tax burden just like the top feel in order to enjoy the benefits of infrastructure of USA.
I think bottom guys actually benefit less. For example, poor NYC neighborhoods are serviced by the Subway more or less the same way as rich ones. I used to work on the South Side of Chicago, where you had to wait 20 minutes in between CTA buses. But downtown the buses are far more frequent because its the city center. But the rents are also much higher downtown for the convenience, meaning the richer citizens of the Chicago Loop get more from CTA service than poorer ones who live further away. The we factor that public schools in the hood are of poorer quality than those in the suburbs.

So poor people pay less taxes, but they also reap less than wealthier people.

Its just basic sense. The free stuff will be used by way more people and therefore be of crappier quality than the fancy stuff that only wealthier people can afford.

This idea - I'm not saying its your idea, but you are facilitating it - that poor people are getting to live a fancy life on rich people's dime is a deeply mistaken one. That isn't even the case in Norway or Sweden, let alone capitalist USA.
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  #404  
Old February 19, 2019, 03:55 PM
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You are really missing the point Al furqan.

Quote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-...tax-1523007001
Top 20% of Americans Will Pay 87% of Income Tax
Households with $150,000 or more in income make up 52% of total income nationally but pay large portion of total taxes
When tax laws are meddled with it has to be in a way so it can be beneficial also to those who actually pay all the tax. The problems you bring up are not a tax revenue problem. It's an economic equal but separate problem that has gone down significantly over the years.

Do you know what 150K annual income gets you? Food on the plate when you have no other govt help and a penalizing tax system. These are not rich ppl.

My problem is with the progressive candidates running on platform to tax more of the ones who already pay almost all the taxes to provide for those that pay none despite enjoying all the infrastructure and entitled programs of USA. Is that a fair system? That's what you have to answer.

You want free health care.. Cough up a percentage of your pay. PURE AND SIMPLE. You want free college.. Pay a portion of your income. You can't have income, pay zero taxes, many cases get MONEY BACK from IRS and then also get everything else.
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  #405  
Old February 19, 2019, 04:08 PM
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I realize I may not get much support here because it's feel good to say provide everything free for everything. But every move have consequences. Like i said and not many lower income ppl themselves will ever do this - I am gladly willing to pay much higher taxes if the social programs benefit all and everyone fairly puts into the system.

After everythign fed, state,city, medicare surplus I already pay 50% of tax on my income... and then some numb nut comes and say that;s not enough when the bottom 40% or so paying ZERO or negligible. I find that extremely unfair system.

Pay 50% of your income too then everyone will start talking about reform. Now it's just trying to get more fuel for non sustainable programs.
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  #406  
Old February 19, 2019, 04:24 PM
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What is the news on Donald today? Looks like a slow day.
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  #407  
Old February 22, 2019, 08:04 AM
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US allies do not applause when Vice President mentions Trump

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  #408  
Old February 22, 2019, 03:06 PM
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USA needs new allies. Europe has become trash. Disband NATO, let those fools ward off Russia by themselves.

Rather make a new alliance in South Asia to deal with China and other civilization threats brewing in Middle east. But leave Europe alone. I am serious! Two times they got bailed out in the two world wars, do not bail them out this time. Let them totally get destroyed so they learn from their lesson.
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  #409  
Old February 22, 2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
USA needs new allies. Europe has become trash. Disband NATO, let those fools ward off Russia by themselves.

Rather make a new alliance in South Asia to deal with China and other civilization threats brewing in Middle east. But leave Europe alone. I am serious! Two times they got bailed out in the two world wars, do not bail them out this time. Let them totally get destroyed so they learn from their lesson.
US bailed out Europe in WW1? First I've heard of it .
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  #410  
Old February 22, 2019, 05:25 PM
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US bailed out Europe in WW1? First I've heard of it .
US joined late but was instrumental in the final offensive push. But US did provide a lot of money, raw materials, and supplies throughout the war. So one could argue that the Allies wouldn't have won without the US backing.

Up until the middle to late WWI, USA had a small army/navy compared to rest of the world. The selective service (the draft system) was introduced in 1917. So essentially that kicked off the military complex. Fast forward 100 years, and US military is the biggest of all. It all started from WWI.

It was Europe's mess but US had to come and clean it up for them and prevented the Europeans from killing off each other.

USA # 1
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  #411  
Old February 22, 2019, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
You are really missing the point Al furqan.



When tax laws are meddled with it has to be in a way so it can be beneficial also to those who actually pay all the tax. The problems you bring up are not a tax revenue problem. It's an economic equal but separate problem that has gone down significantly over the years.

Do you know what 150K annual income gets you? Food on the plate when you have no other govt help and a penalizing tax system. These are not rich ppl.

My problem is with the progressive candidates running on platform to tax more of the ones who already pay almost all the taxes to provide for those that pay none despite enjoying all the infrastructure and entitled programs of USA. Is that a fair system? That's what you have to answer.

You want free health care.. Cough up a percentage of your pay. PURE AND SIMPLE. You want free college.. Pay a portion of your income. You can't have income, pay zero taxes, many cases get MONEY BACK from IRS and then also get everything else.
Top 20% also owns 87% of the wealth of the country so that’s fair.

If welfare is so great why don’t you quit your job and take it? Poor people would love to have your income and tax burden. That’s the bottom line.

The real problem is that tax burden is high on middle class because big corporations are using tax loopholes and lobbying.
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  #412  
Old February 24, 2019, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Top 20% also owns 87% of the wealth of the country so that’s fair.

If welfare is so great why don’t you quit your job and take it?
that's not a good argument and I realize we will not agree with each other here. But replying to correct your numbers above.

Top 20% of earners pay 90% of the total tax despite having 50% of the wealth.

So 80 ppls needs of right infrastructure, medicine cost, social cost are whats making that big expense PIE chart.

Everyone needs to pay. A fair system would be to do away all the deductions and just slap and flat tax rate. Then everyone will vote with the right intention instead of these social progressive opportunist candidates.
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  #413  
Old February 25, 2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by al Furqaan

If welfare is so great why don’t you quit your job and take it? Poor people would love to have your income and tax burden. That’s the bottom line.

Maybe I am dumb to understand the above, but if I understood it correctly, I think I just read the dumbest thing in my entire life!

Who the eff stopped those people to get those jobs at the first place? What a dumb argument!
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  #414  
Old February 25, 2019, 07:39 PM
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Who the eff stopped those people to get those jobs at the first place? What a dumb argument!
HR, hiring committees, etc.

What's stopping wall street fat cats from resigning, moving to the projects, and collecting welfare checks? Answer: those big salaries and a 35% income tax.
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  #415  
Old February 25, 2019, 10:37 PM
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The corporations and the wealthy class have been indirectly running this country for some time. I don't think anybody can reverse the rich people/wall street culture of "tele mathay tel deya". As most folks agree, anytime they come up with these tax restructuring plans, the people affected most will always be the middle/upper middle class.

I'm still waiting to hear a real solution to this problem from presidential hopefuls. Free 4 yr college for all isn't a solution. The education system is in need of an overhaul. If they don't want to make radical changes right away there are quick fixes that can be adopted.

Restructure the last two years of high school and make students specialize in a particular discipline. This can be akin to what they do in India and China. Better yet, follow the German model and provide students vocational/technical training. This "jack of all trades" education system in the US just isn't working for most people any longer. If you don't want to tinker with high school then offer 2 yr degrees for free at community colleges where they can gain specialization.

Four yr degrees should not be free. They should be exclusively for those who are willing to cough up the dough or are smart enough to earn scholarships. The point is there are millions and millions of job openings in this country. We just aren't providing people with the right training. In the field of cybersecurity alone there are 300,000 openings right now that cannot be filled. In 5 yrs this number is projected to exceed a few million. There are so many other areas of technology that have virtually unlimited number of openings. These politicians need to stop inventing ways of scamming the middle class and start thinking of real solutions that can at least put the future generation on the right track.
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  #416  
Old February 26, 2019, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
The corporations and the wealthy class have been indirectly running this country for some time. I don't think anybody can reverse the rich people/wall street culture of "tele mathay tel deya". As most folks agree, anytime they come up with these tax restructuring plans, the people affected most will always be the middle/upper middle class.

I'm still waiting to hear a real solution to this problem from presidential hopefuls. Free 4 yr college for all isn't a solution. The education system is in need of an overhaul. If they don't want to make radical changes right away there are quick fixes that can be adopted.

Restructure the last two years of high school and make students specialize in a particular discipline. This can be akin to what they do in India and China. Better yet, follow the German model and provide students vocational/technical training. This "jack of all trades" education system in the US just isn't working for most people any longer. If you don't want to tinker with high school then offer 2 yr degrees for free at community colleges where they can gain specialization.

Four yr degrees should not be free. They should be exclusively for those who are willing to cough up the dough or are smart enough to earn scholarships. The point is there are millions and millions of job openings in this country. We just aren't providing people with the right training. In the field of cybersecurity alone there are 300,000 openings right now that cannot be filled. In 5 yrs this number is projected to exceed a few million. There are so many other areas of technology that have virtually unlimited number of openings. These politicians need to stop inventing ways of scamming the middle class and start thinking of real solutions that can at least put the future generation on the right track.
While there is no doubt that education system needs an overhaul and more importance should be given on vocational education, the corporations must also be equally blamed for the system of meritocracy not working.

Let me clarify what I understand by meritocracy. By meritocracy I understand that you evaluate someone based on his or her merit. When a graduate comes out of college, according to meritocracy, he is supposed to be judged based on what he has been able to accomplish. His accomplishment says something about his capability and what he can achieve in future. Therefore, even if the candidate is not a 100% match for a position, the corporation is supposed to evaluate the merit and give him the job opportunity and help him overcome his gaps. Because he or she has already proved that they have merit by earning their diplomas and doing other projects in life.

Instead, corporations are often unwilling to show any social responsibility. They simply want to hire candidates who can meet the job role 200% from Day 1. You cannot find a spouse who is 100% match, and you often compromise, but when it comes to hiring, corporations often do not compromise.

Recently I was interviewed for a job. I honestly felt I was 90% fit for that role. This was a somewhat different role than my current role, but despite bringing a post graduate degree, field experience, a detailed plan about how I will make the required transition, and other credentials on the table, I was offered a regret letter. Sure, I could have better prepared for my interview and performed better, but it appeared to me that at the end of the day, they decided to play safe and thus opt for a person who had industry experience in the exact similar role.

When corporations show so much unwillingness to even put a miniscule amount of leap on faith on human beings, and consider human beings simply as numbers and tools for expanding their capital, and dismiss everything else like passion, potential, and emotion, simply overhauling education system or promoting vocational training will not change the landscape. Because corporations are not social entity. They are cold blooded money making capitalist entity. Do you think corporations will prefer a newly graduated technician and give him a chance if they can find an experienced one? Never.

While corporations readily dismiss graduates and candidates for having no experience or exact experience, those same corporations simultaneously also hire totally unqualified candidates all the time. CNN recently hired Sarah Isgur, who has no journalism experience at all, and who is a political hack, to be their editor for 2020 coverage. When such comical and unjust hiring happens all the time, what benefit will you reap simply by overhauling the education system but ignoring prevalent capitalist injustice?

Then there is the issue of social status. Like it or not, vocational jobs do not have the same social status like pure white collar jobs, and this is a reason why everyone flocks for college degrees. Plus in the absence of universal basic income, vocational jobs do not pay you a living wage. How do you change this perception and social reality? If a job does not provide economic stability and social dignity, why would anyone be motivated to go for it? Will you prefer for your children vocational training? Corporate masters want you and I to attend 2 year training college, because outside their 0.1% circle, they want each and every one to be their money making slaves.

I therefore support Bernie's free college idea. Let educational opportunity exist for each and everyone as RIGHT. If that means everyone going for college, so be it. If capitalists truly believe that market takes care of itself, then surely, millions of graduates will also take care of themselves. If there is no job and the market dictates that a graduate has to be a rickshawpuller, so be it, but do not deny his RIGHT to attend college. Do not allow corporation or government to dictate whether I will attend a 2 year or 4 year college. Do not fall into the trap of rich elite and corporations, who pay lip service to free market, but in reality want to create a permanent class division, where the poor will have low dignity vocational training but only the rich elites will have access to prestigious graduate and post graduate degrees. Now you know why people like Betsy DeVos promote so hard for for-profit college and why Trump fear mongers screaming communism and socialism when Bernie proposes free college for all. Because it is a solution to existing class warfare whereas the rich wants to keep this warfare alive.
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  #417  
Old February 26, 2019, 12:18 PM
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^I understand where you are coming from. You already have a good job and are looking to make a lateral move. This is more of a mid/upper-mid/upper level job issue. I'll circle back to this point shortly, but the solution I'm looking for from presidential hopefuls has more to do with nearly 70% of Americans who just have a high school degree and in the age of Big data and AI are desperately hoping that coal jobs won't go away so they can make $15 per hour.

I don't disagree with what you are saying about big corporations. I'm just being realistic here and conceding that no present day politician can win against the MIC. They are just too strong and powerful and I'm not sure anyone can survive let alone make any changes that could potentially undermine their authority. On the other hand I don't think it's fair to place more burden on the middle class for the failure of the politician to make big corporations pay.

You seem to know much about politicians from every nook and cranny so I'm not sure where you reside. But I can tell you that in the US it's not uncommon for a 2 yr degree degree holder in a technical field to make more than a PhD holder in fields that are in less demand. In many cases we see that there are way more open positions than qualified individuals and with the unemployment rate hovering below 4%, do organizations really have a choice not to hire?

As far as mid to high level positions are concerned, I agree that corporations have unrealistic expectations. In corporate America this expectation has developed as an unintended consequence of globalization; as a result of job applicants from certain countries constantly abusing the foreign worker visa system over the years. Ever since they started giving out H1B/H4 visas willy nilly, many of those applicants have been submitting resumes with fake experience that meet the job requirements 200% and getting hired. Ironically, while other politicians are talking about all these idealistic solutions, Trump is actually working on addressing some of these issues. As an example, he's made the selection process for these visas more stringent thus making it harder for outsiders to game the system. He's also pushing to revert an Obama era decision that permitted H4 visa holders to work.
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  #418  
Old February 26, 2019, 12:56 PM
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^I think that H1B visa loophole needs to be addressed. Indian companies exploits these extensively. I hope Trump takes some action and makes the process more stringent.

America First, Americans First.
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  #419  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:34 AM
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Bad week for Donald Trump. First no deal in Hanoi (probably it was sabotaged by war criminal John Bolton who does not want any peace but only war), followed by Cohen testimony.

Nothing new came out from Cohen testimony. If anything, the testimony proved that there was no collusion with Russia. Eagerly waiting for FRAUD Bob Mueller's (who BTW supported Iraq war) report.
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  #420  
Old March 1, 2019, 09:35 AM
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^^ what about SDNY's investigation?
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  #421  
Old March 1, 2019, 11:01 AM
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General McChrystal (commander in charge for Iraq and then later Afg) came to our work yesterday and gave a talk on on "leadership". He is retired now and I guess makes money through these speeches. It was very interesting to see him in person and the discussion then obviously veered towards Iraq and politics.

Few things that he mentioned that I didn't know --

Al Qaeda was founded in Pakistan in 1988.
He thinks Iraq invasion was a mistake.
He led the counterterrorism unit for years and said how the enemy evolved with social media and cellphones.

I wanted to ask him something in the QA session. But all the ques was pre selected and obviously they were all very softballs.
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  #422  
Old March 2, 2019, 12:30 AM
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Bad week for Donald Trump. First no deal in Hanoi (probably it was sabotaged by war criminal John Bolton who does not want any peace but only war), followed by Cohen testimony.
You are mistaken if you think that someone needs to sabatoge a deal between NK and US. Even if Kim wants to de-nuke, China will not allow him to. NK is merely another province of China. If NK de-nukes, then US will be right at their door step. They are already in Taiwan, SK, Japan. NK is a vital buffer for China. Its strategic importance is 100x that of Kashmir to India and PAK.
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  #423  
Old March 2, 2019, 05:04 AM
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  #424  
Old March 2, 2019, 01:44 PM
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  #425  
Old March 3, 2019, 02:46 PM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...n-poll-1200180

Despite Cohen testimony and what not, Trump remains a formidable candidate in 2020. Recent poll shows 4 out of 10 will vote for him, which is a solid 40%.

Unseating an incumbent POTUS is a very tough job indeed.
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