Gambling gone too far

[Eshen]

Originally Posted by rinathq


Now we have this new trend starting up. We are taking a certain number of players in the squad so that they can be in a competitive circle of players and travel to gain experience of foreign conditions. Wow, when I was little, there was this team called “A” team that existed for such experiences. Is it too old school? Or perhaps cost effective I guess. Why send 14 of them when we can take 1-2 extra every time. But the point is, even the biggest defenders of the selection process cannot possibly come what and give an educated explanation on why a navy officer who just became a part time cricketer, an under 19 players who just started playing competitive domestic cricket and a thoroughly untested veteran can suddenly be selected or considered to play in a condition, even the most experienced in the squad have difficulty with. If you think you have an answer to this, please, enlighten us!

If the intention is to groom upcoming players, that is where you have to invest! You invest in coaches, invest in HP programs, invest in A tours. You don’t groom them by including them at the most competitive level. When they walk in the field with the jersey on, they better be ready! So far, Soumya wasn’t ready yet, Jubair wasn’t ready, Mithun wasn’t ready, Rabbi wasn’t ready, Hom wasn't ready for a comeback and the likes of Ibadat and Shanto are certainly not ready. A team is their place not the national team sir!

I agree with many points brought in the op, but can't fault Hathuru for taking Shanto and Ebadat to the prep camp in Sydney. He pointed out in his interviews times and over the importance of A-team tours, that he should not been in situations so often to try out untested players. How can he be at fault if BCB don't want to invest in those tours? He had to come up with his own solutions - to arrange that prep camp in Sydney and to take couple of future prospects along the team over there.

Criticism is not undue for him and Papon making a mess of the selection process (btw, I remember some of the posters in this thread being very harsh of Faruque when he opposed tweaking the selection process to give Hathuru the dominance over it). But credit should be given to him when it's due.

[MHRAM]

Its also true BCB has failed to organize any A team or Academy team tours in the entire year! The focus is solely on BPL, U-19 and national team.

A team tours is what prepare the fringe players. You can see the progress made by youngsters and also see how the fringe players are doing right now. Playing overseas as well helps to develop character a lot.

[mufi_02]

I'm late to this conversation. But are they picking final 15 from this prep tour squad of 22?

I think Haturi is thinking long term. In a recent interview, he said he is already planning for 2019 WC. So in those conditions, maybe he thinks Shanto/Ebadat are better suited than Nasir/AA

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by rinathq
Simon bhai, what you dont realize is the coach makes EVERY call these days. Nannu is basically a spokes person of the selection committee. Papon just talks, in reality he does not get himself involved in every selection process. He steps in when things are alarmingly wrong.....

This statement is just a wishful ASSUMPTION. You have no real proof. On the other hand, Simon had a video, coming from the horse's mouth.
+++
I understand your displeasure; just like you I am fan and have a different opinion. Not on Haturi but the players you have mentioned.

1. We are going to NZ not SL. We have enough spinners already. Unless someone gets injured, we need to pack this team with fast and swing bowlers. Nasir is not the closer he use to be. His recent pokes had costed his wicket and showed weakness against fast bowlers. Averaged dropped immensely. So exclusion of Nasir, I don't have any problem (this can be political - Papon's daughter getting involved with Nasir but that has no merit on his recent output.)

2. Al-Amin. Whatever it was, it wasn't good for the team when he got into trouble. He was regular before that as a 3rd/4th seamer. Discipline is a must on a overseas trip. See, Flintoff, Symonds, Petierson, Ryder, Watto etc. etc.

3. Rubel. This is where I think the selection missed a trick. His speed is an asset in the pitches we will play. His poise against England in World Cup was too good. However, I have full trust in Walsh. He is the one is seeing the seam attack not Haturi. So the ones that picked, he must have seen something special.

[MHRAM]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
I'm late to this conversation. But are they picking final 15 from this prep tour squad of 22?

I think Haturi is thinking long term. In a recent interview, he said he is already planning for 2019 WC. So in those conditions, maybe he thinks Shanto/Ebadat are better suited than Nasir/AA

And Hom, Shafiul, Tanveer Haider are?

[MHRAM]

http://www.bdcricteam.com/2016/11/i-...rubel-hossain/

on the contrary Rubel's reply has been very mature. Our players these are quite mature compare to those of yesteryear. Remember Raqibul Hasan retiring?

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by MHRAM
And Hom, Shafiul, Tanveer Haider are?

Hom is questionable. Shafiul and Rubel are really interchangeable in t20/test. Haven't seen Haider so can't comment.

[Eshen]

Rubel's omission, atm, is quite justifiable, unless he can show during BPL that he gained his rhythm/pace back.

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
This statement is just a wishful ASSUMPTION. You have no real proof. On the other hand, Simon had a video, coming from the horse's mouth.
+++
I understand your displeasure; just like you I am fan and have a different opinion. Not on Haturi but the players you have mentioned.

1. We are going to NZ not SL. We have enough spinners already. Unless someone gets injured, we need to pack this team with fast and swing bowlers. Nasir is not the closer he use to be. His recent pokes had costed his wicket and showed weakness against fast bowlers. Averaged dropped immensely. So exclusion of Nasir, I don't have any problem (this can be political - Papon's daughter getting involved with Nasir but that has no merit on his recent output.)

2. Al-Amin. Whatever it was, it wasn't good for the team when he got into trouble. He was regular before that as a 3rd/4th seamer. Discipline is a must on a overseas trip. See, Flintoff, Symonds, Petierson, Ryder, Watto etc. etc.

3. Rubel. This is where I think the selection missed a trick. His speed is an asset in the pitches we will play. His poise against England in World Cup was too good. However, I have full trust in Walsh. He is the one is seeing the seam attack not Haturi. So the ones that picked, he must have seen something special.

Wishful assumption? No its not difficult connecting to dots that are next to each other. We had a selector before and he resigned. Why? Because the coach was given extra authority which saw his position as obsolete. How difficult is it to interpret that information? Tanveer Haider was born yesterday right? Oh no, he picked up like 50 wickets in last 2 weeks right? How come none of Akram, Nannu, Bashar, Faruk never even considered him for their 30 squad ever? Rabbi aint no rookie either. Why wasnt he considered before? Last year we were also in a situation when we had such a shortage of seamers, Soumya was played as a main seam option. Rabbi performed just as well last year but was nowhere in the frame. Shafiul was actually a better performer before and still he wasnt preferred over Rubel or Al Amin who were trusted to be more consistent with experience.

How do you not see the drastic change in selection all of a sudden? There is nothing to assume. Its evident!

1. We are going to NZ so we should pack the squad with fast and swing bowlers. Damm you got that right. Let name some quicks we picked... Shuvagata Hom, Tanveer Haider, Taijul Islam.

If Nasir's pokes and poor form cost him the squad. So his replacement is Shuvagata Hom?

2. Whatever it is? No no! If its something serious, loud mouth BCB wouldve been so vocal about it that we would have a thread "Al Amin should be permanently dropped from Bangladesh squad" Truth is they always came with all sorts of excuses. First it was discipline and then it was fitness when he played DPL and the practice games and his performance shows nothing like that!

3. You trust Walsh, great! So far, I have zero reason to trust him. He has no track record of improving young seamers and so for, our seam attack looks no better if not worse. Not blaming him but he hasn't seen our bowlers enough!

[NoName]

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
(this can be political - Papon's daughter getting involved with Nasir but that has no merit on his recent output.)

Lol is this true?

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Eshen
I agree with many points brought in the op, but can't fault Hathuru for taking Shanto and Ebadat to the prep camp in Sydney. He pointed out in his interviews times and over the importance of A-team tours, that he should not been in situations so often to try out untested players. How can he be at fault if BCB don't want to invest in those tours? He had to come up with his own solutions - to arrange that prep camp in Sydney and to take couple of future prospects along the team over there.

Criticism is not undue for him and Papon making a mess of the selection process (btw, I remember some of the posters in this thread being very harsh of Faruque when he opposed tweaking the selection process to give Hathuru the dominance over it). But credit should be given to him when it's due.

I was one of those who supported Faruks resignation. His selection had unfair prejudice. But he was better then this. He didnt select players based on attributes only. Performance mattered. His mistake was he never considered experienced players despite their form.

[jeesh]

While we are all busy with our witch hunt here...the boys are winning games. Nearly won the ODI series 2-1 and the Test Series 2-0.

I guess this is why good coaches cannot continue in Bangladesh in any sport. Deja vu Siddons, Whatmore.

[Jadukor]

there is no witch hunt. The criticisms are quite sensible. Our teams needs to be composed of the best 11 players available even if we can win with just 9 players because one of them is extraordinary (Miraj). If anyone can justify Hom, Shafiul and Kamrul's selection then lets hear it.

[jeesh]

What if the selector and coach's thinking is in line with the following argument. Al Amin's discipline problem is well known. Nasir's work ethics have also come in question. What if the coach wants to promote a certain culture in the side and eliminate any who dont fit in with that.

[IndiaCT2017]

Coach, or not, Bangladesh will be nothing if they don`t start winning away from home, don`t whinge and say no matches away, when you guys get the opportunity of playing abroad, ur openers struggle, middle orders has diahorrea and tail enders are just garbade,

Bangladesh bowling on the other hand is great, but get fked up by **** batting

[Cricket4All]

At the end of the day it's in our culture to make someone messiah when the person in question probably doing nothing more than his job properly. Whenever we found a good coach we wanted to make him selector and what not, though he should be focused on getting his job done only.

I reckon the head coach of a Test playing country may recommend players for selection, but should not be overburdened by being part of the selection panel. We have this weird 2-layer selection structure which is not able to function properly without getting overridden by the admin people ( team manager , director of cricket operations etc). So basically inept BCB and their weird selection structure is the main culprit for all erroneous selection, not CH - our head coach.

[Rinathq]

@Jeesh. Just in case u didnt read my posts or didnt know this from before. Al Amin Hossain was dropped with the excuse of "fitness" issue. Nasir Hossain was dropped due to "team combination" issue and Rubel Hossain was dropped due to "poor form" issue.

I dont see dicipline or work ethic anywhere. Those were the old excuses. They returned from that and proved them wrong!

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by jeesh
While we are all busy with our witch hunt here...the boys are winning games. Nearly won the ODI series 2-1 and the Test Series 2-0.

I guess this is why good coaches cannot continue in Bangladesh in any sport. Deja vu Siddons, Whatmore.

same way I can say, we nearly lost against Afghanistan 1-2 and got whitewashed by England in test 0-2. They were 102/0 after 22 overs

[jeesh]

But we didnt. Eventually we won. In the England series the only game we were "Defeated" was the third ODI. Other than that we were the better side the other three matches, 2 of which we lost as we buckled under pressure.

But these things will take time to improve. Considering how we were playing only a few years ago, i would be inclined to say we are progressing.

The Afghanistan series, i admit was a very poor one. I dont think there should be such long gaps

[Rinathq]

lol you are the one who brought up the possibility of a better result. i just countered with the opposite. Couldve gone both ways right?

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by jeesh
What if the selector and coach's thinking is in line with the following argument. Al Amin's discipline problem is well known. Nasir's work ethics have also come in question. What if the coach wants to promote a certain culture in the side and eliminate any who dont fit in with that.

Coaches deal with players who are hard to discipline. It is part of their job responsibility along with the captain. None of these guys fell off the boat like Flintoff or got into a fight like Symonds or sent sms to opposition like Pietersen. Plus it still doesnt explain the selection choices of the replacement players.

[jeesh]

Originally Posted by rinathq
@Jeesh. Just in case u didnt read my posts or didnt know this from before. Al Amin Hossain was dropped with the excuse of "fitness" issue. Nasir Hossain was dropped due to "team combination" issue and Rubel Hossain was dropped due to "poor form" issue.

I dont see dicipline or work ethic anywhere. Those were the old excuses. They returned from that and proved them wrong!

Al Amin's a real curious case, for a while he's been having discipline issues-remember WC. I think Streak did a good job keeping him check.

Nasir's work ethic was questioned as recent as July when they were preparing for recent series. He nearly finished bottom in the fitness test.

One thing you got to realize about our coach is, he's quite the tough character. If you get on his bad books, it ll take a heck lot of convincing to find a way back. Its not unusual to see that in any sport. Al Amin and Nasir will have to let the ball and bat do the talking in upcoming BPL.

But the coach and selectors must be more direct, and objective about their rationale about dropping and selecting players. Right now too much of uncertainty and confusion about what they re saying

[Eshen]

^^ But the coach does not care about the BPL performances!

Excuses definitely getting ridiculous - Nasir can't play pace well (Hathuru tried to use the same excuse against Momin before WI series, I guess not knowing that Momin came in the team based on some excellent A-team performances in WI); AA has not done enough in domestics (he certainly has done better than both Shahid and Subashis while Ebadat has no domestic record to speak of).

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by rinathq
Wishful assumption? No its not difficult connecting to dots that are next to each other. We had a selector before and he resigned. Why? Because the coach was given extra authority which saw his position as obsolete. How difficult is it to interpret that information? Tanveer Haider was born yesterday right? Oh no, he picked up like 50 wickets in last 2 weeks right? How come none of Akram, Nannu, Bashar, Faruk never even considered him for their 30 squad ever? Rabbi aint no rookie either. Why wasnt he considered before? Last year we were also in a situation when we had such a shortage of seamers, Soumya was played as a main seam option. Rabbi performed just as well last year but was nowhere in the frame. Shafiul was actually a better performer before and still he wasnt preferred over Rubel or Al Amin who were trusted to be more consistent with experience.

How do you not see the drastic change in selection all of a sudden? There is nothing to assume. Its evident!

Connecting dots are ASSUMPTION. Do I need to quote a definition for you?

The selection committee representative is the "ki honu ray" same guy who wanted to quit and create drama. So is he your key witness? If so, he is the one who said it in the video. So you side with him one time when it suits your assumption and you disregard him when it doesn't suit your assumption. No one person SELECTS the team. Haturi alone doesn't select the team. More power doesn't make him a dictator in a committee. That is the truth/fact. If you do not want to believe that, then it is your personal issue. Your "assumption" or "connecting the dots" is not a fact but a wishful thinking. If one wants to be blind, no one can make him/her see what the facts are.

Originally Posted by rinathq
1. We are going to NZ so we should pack the squad with fast and swing bowlers. Damm you got that right. Let name some quicks we picked... Shuvagata Hom, Tanveer Haider, Taijul Islam.

Tanveer is a leg spinner. Taijul is left arm. Hom and off break alrounder. And you want to add another spinner or replace one with another spinner.
This is a free ride to get experience in down under or in a different environment. Team bonding for the selected 22. This is not the 15 that would travel to NZ. Most likely it will trimmed even more. Not the "doom's day" you guys are portraying.

Originally Posted by rinathq
If Nasir's pokes and poor form cost him the squad. So his replacement is Shuvagata Hom?

Yes, Hom did much better in the last test. We were about to fold around 250. He took it close to 300. That was the difference. Again, this is a fact. No assumption here. Listen to Cook's interviews if you doubt me.

Originally Posted by rinathq
2. Whatever it is? No no! If its something serious, loud mouth BCB wouldve been so vocal about it that we would have a thread "Al Amin should be permanently dropped from Bangladesh squad" Truth is they always came with all sorts of excuses. First it was discipline and then it was fitness when he played DPL and the practice games and his performance shows nothing like that!

Discipline, potential and performance are three different things, with discipline carrying more weight than the other two. On any walk of life that is true. I have already gave some examples on what one individual person's indiscipline can do to the team. If the exclusion makes Al-Amin better then it is a win for everyone, especially for Al-Amin.

Originally Posted by rinathq
3. You trust Walsh, great! So far, I have zero reason to trust him. He has no track record of improving young seamers and so for, our seam attack looks no better if not worse. Not blaming him but he hasn't seen our bowlers enough!

So any bowling coach in one series (one month time) would change the whole thing? And one will the see the fruits? This is the nano-tech world we live in now. Instant gratification is a must. We love our microwave food, no?

Disregarding the language barrier, disregarding the injuries, disregarding the security situation, disregarding not knowing his plans.... I am done talking then. I can't make people wake up when they choose to sleep. "Patience" is not in our vocabulary. We can't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. "Everyone is here to get me" world.
+++
Living in a fantasy land will rile people up instantly. Stay grounded that is all I can say to everyone.

[Tigers_eye]

And this is not gambling. Guess and miss. The selectors, the committee has more data now than before. There is a process in place. They are more informed than the arm-chair QBs like us. Passion is great. Not knowing the facts and arguing to the nth degree is ignorance.

I questioned fast tracking Sarkar, Fizz, Miraz myself. Now the proof is in the pudding. We don't see what the coaches see. The team is in good hands. No, not the "All-State" insurance company.