***The Donald Trump Thread***

[ToBeFair]

Democrats have initiated impeachment inquiry on Donald Trump because he apparently asked for dirt on Joe Biden from the president of Ukraine over a phone conversation.

Let me make an easy prediction: this is a fight from which Trump will come out with a big, beautiful, TREMENDOUS WIN, and emboldened to the hilt to prevail in his reelection. Here are few reasons:

1. Technically Trump asking the Ukrainian president to investigate Biden's son is illegal, but 'technicality' is a complicated thing to sell to public. To win in politics, you MUST keep it simple. Biden and his son's brazen corruption is very easy to understand, and thus in public's eye, Biden's corruption will seem more obvious quid pro quo and more corrupt than that of Trump's seeking of foreign help to boost his reelection chances. Trump is winning here as a salesman. By bringing Biden corruption issue at the front and center, he is reselling Clinton Foundation repackaged. Every time he hits with it, the attack will land on Biden and rebrand him and the whole Democratic Party as corrupt.

2. If Democrats really wanted to impeach Trump, they should have chosen a subject easy to sell. Millions of dollars are funneled to Trump properties and yet Congress is silent on emoluments clause. But democrats are corrupt too, and thus they chose a technical issue. Impeachment is thus coming across as more of looking the other way/protecting Biden over reprimanding POTUS, serving intended messaging win for Trump!

3. People focus on corruption, not on how you unearth it. DNC last time tried to play down its internal corruption by highlighting the criminality of their server hacking, but nobody bought this line of argument. Similarly, even though illegal, people won't see Trump asking foreign help as illegal, but will rather focus on Biden's corruption.

4. Another reason why people won’t by this technicality argument is because presidents are regularly given pass on more egregious/heinous crimes. Washington was OK when Obama destroyed Libya. Washington is OK with Trump’s many horrible policies. But suddenly they are having a nervous breakdown because Trump asked for dirt on Biden. People can see through this hypocrisy.

5. People are already saturated with scandal fatigue from RussiaGate. If Democrats think that they force feed another lame RussiaGate aka Ukrainegate and score political victory, they are in for a massive rude awakening. If history is any indication, Bill Clinton's impeachment only increased his popularity. Same will happen with Trump. It will only make his base more determined, and the substance-less oxygen sucking scandal fatigue 2.0 may even turn some independent/Obama voters to Trump voters.

6. From the very beginning, a Trump technique has been projecting him as a perpetual victim - who did not receive a fair chance from Democrats to govern. Ukrainegate will only bolster this image.

7. As the Commander in Troll, Trump always wants conflict because conflict creates constant press attention that Donald J. Troll always craves. Press attention is what made Trump POTUS in the first place, and it may very well give him another term.

8. When the impeachment inquiry is complete, what may happen?

a. House does not hold a vote on impeachment at all
b. House votes but does not have the vote to forward it to senate
c. House votes and forwards impeachment to senate for adjudication
d. Senate does not convict Trump because they do not have 60 votes

Scenario a and b means OUTRIGHT VICTORY for Trump. It will further damage the image of Democrats. Scenario c and d means TOTAL EXONERATION for Trump because let alone flipping 20 republican votes, Democrats probably won’t even be able hold their own house because of red state/blue dog democrats.

It does not matter who is holding the office, unless there is clear and overwhelming bipartisan support, impeachment is a mistake because it costs HUGE political capital. And here we have an impeachment fight where Trump is guaranteed a WIN from the very beginning. The end of it may unleash a demonic force in Trump and in his base that even Bernie won’t be able to resist and win against.

America in on track to lose.

[Zeeshan]

For TBF

https://www.amazon.com/s?i=digital-t...ies_rw_dp_labf

[ToBeFair]

Experts are echoing what I said above impeachment

Chris Hedges brilliantly articulated the truth behind impeachment

The Problem With Impeachment

Impeaching Donald Trump would do nothing to halt the deep decay that has beset the American republic. It would not magically restore democratic institutions. It would not return us to the rule of law. It would not curb the predatory appetites of the big banks, the war industry and corporations. It would not get corporate money out of politics or end our system of legalized bribery. It would not halt the wholesale surveillance and monitoring of the public by the security services. It would not end the reigns of terror practiced by paramilitary police in impoverished neighborhoods or the mass incarceration of 2.3 million citizens. It would not impede ICE from hunting down the undocumented and ripping children from their arms to pen them in cages. It would not halt the extraction of fossil fuels and the looming ecocide. It would not give us a press freed from the corporate mandate to turn news into burlesque for profit. It would not end our endless and futile wars. It would not ameliorate the hatred between the nation’s warring tribes—indeed would only exacerbate these hatreds.

Impeachment is about cosmetics. It is about replacing the public face of empire with a political mandarin such as Joe Biden, himself steeped in corruption and obsequious service to the rich and corporate power, who will carry out the same suicidal policies with appropriate regal decorum. The ruling elites have had enough of Trump’s vulgarity, stupidity and staggering ineptitude. They turned on him not over an egregious impeachable offense—there have been numerous impeachable offenses including the use of the presidency for personal enrichment, inciting violence and racism, passing on classified intelligence to foreign officials, obstruction of justice and a pathological inability to tell the truth—but because he made the fatal mistake of trying to take down a fellow member of the ruling elite.

Yes, Trump pressured Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to give him dirt on Biden and his son, Hunter Biden, and there probably is some. Yes, it appears the U.S. president withheld roughly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine in order to exert leverage over that government. Yes, he attempted to block the release of the whistleblower report that detailed his conduct. Yes, this is a violation of the law, one that many Democrats in Congress see as an impeachable offense.
But this kind of dirty quid pro quo is the staple of politics and international relations. Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence official, was hired to dig up dirt on Trump and Russia by Fusion GPS, a research and intelligence firm under contract to investigate Trump by Perkins Coie, a law firm working for the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. Four decades ago, Ronald Reagan’s campaign manager, William Casey, asked the Iranians not to free the American hostages held in Tehran until after the November presidential election to hurt incumbent Jimmy Carter, according to Gary Sick, Carter’s chief aide on Iran. The American hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated, in January 1981.


Hillary Clinton, as far as we know, was never on the phone to Steele. Reagan, as far as we know, was never on the phone to the Iranian president. Trump’s fatal mistake was that he was overt in his request and he made it himself. This kind of underhanded pressure to damage political opponents requires skillful hints, secret meetings, carefully calibrated pressure and total deniability. Trump is too clueless to play the game. Because of this he looks set to join the exclusive club of presidents who were impeached—Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton.

[ToBeFair]

Another brilliant article

Impeachment isn’t the answer to America’s political crisis

Trump did ask for a favour, but it was for help in his obsessive quest to prove that he won the presidency fair and square. And while he later raised the prospect of an investigation into Biden, at no time did he dangle military contracts he had put on hold as an inducement. Meanwhile, Zelenskiy was more interested in possible future deals. There was a request from Trump for a quo – but no quid, exactly.

If the summary is accurate, what we are left with is not savoury, but neither is it definitive. It has nonetheless set in train another burst of excited commentary. What this excitement really represents is a further round in the dramatic cycle of argument about the meaning of Trump’s 2016 electoral victory.

For liberal and conservative centrists, inured to taking turns in power for decades, Trump’s rise in the Republican party and his success in beating Hillary Clinton within the appalling rules of the American game was the real affront. Blindsided by their ejection by an incoherent nonentity and sexual predator, this coalition of long-governing elites, from liberal technocrats to “never-Trump” conservatives, has declared war on the president, embracing any bad pretext or good reason to call for his early ouster.

There are certainly many reasons to wish Trump out of office. He is incompetent and inflammatory, and his policies are racist and anti-poor. But behind the stance of permanent alarm and outrage adopted by the political establishment is a strong sense that what really irks them is that US democracy, such as it is, has toppled them from power. And after pining for so long for Robert Mueller’s investigation to be their redemption, they have now pinned their hopes on a “memcon ex machina”.

The trouble from the beginning, and one reason for the constant repetition of the drama, is that Trump’s very conquest of the Republican party meant it was always going to be nearly impossible to convince enough members of Congress to put this presidency down early. For every chorus of dismay and shock from never-Trump centrists there is an always-Trump faction prepared to excuse him when he comes near the line of malfeasance or crosses over it – and the chorus knows it. Both sides have deserved one another at every stage.

For all their appeals to enduring moral values, whether US exceptionalism or legal principle, the centrists are deploying a transparent strategy to return to power. Trump’s shambolic presidency somehow seems less unsavoury than the fact that neither of these sides are able to admit how massively his election signified the failure of their policies, from endless war to economic inequality.

Leftwing members of Congress such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders have long been in favour of impeaching Trump. But they have not made it a daily obsession. Even as Washington teemed with talking points about the phone call, Ocasio-Cortez introduced a bold plan to fight poverty; Sanders proposed a new wealth tax the day before.

Progressives are right to worry that what matters most is not whether Trump committed an “impeachable offence” (which means no more than that enough members of the House of Representatives will vote to indict him), but instead what political vision Democrats can rally behind to win the country, rigged system and all. Given the importance of that question, the current debate about whether to impeach Trump, for all the melodrama around it now, pales in comparison.

Centrists simply want to return to the status quo interrupted by Trump, their reputations laundered by their courageous opposition to his mercurial reign, and their policies restored to credibility. Meanwhile, rightwing Republicans hope to benefit from his ascendancy, doubling down on tax cuts. No wonder progressives’ greatest fear is allowing the first group to return to the failed policies that produced Trump himself, and the second to capitalise on his rise to entrench their rule indefinitely.

[ToBeFair]

Trump already winning tremendously with impeachment

To Dems

As of Friday, Trump’s 2020 reelection campaign received $15 million in small donations, including 50,000 from new donors, according to a tweet from Eric Trump.

“Unbelievable numbers!!” he tweeted. “Keep it going — you and the dems are handing @realDonaldTrump the win in 2020!”

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...achment-threat

[ToBeFair]

Even establishment outlets are warning about impeachment failure

Why trying to impeach Trump and oust Johnson may end in tears

Without ironclad proof that Trump withheld military assistance to put pressure on the new Ukrainian president for an investigation into Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden, Republican senators are unlikely to be swayed. And even then it might not be enough to convince those up for reelection to face the fury of the Republican base.

At the end of an impeachment process, Democrats may succeed in showing they can stand up against Trump the bully, but they will also reveal their impotence in removing him from office. Just as former President Clinton largely turned the tables on his accusers in the 1990s, Trump can show his populist base how persecuted he is by the "deep state," deflecting attention away from slowing wage growth and a sputtering economy that he has brought about with his tariff war. If Democrats fight the campaign as an extension of the impeachment effort, they will repeat the same mistakes that cost Hillary Clinton the election in 2016.

Trump loses only when his empty promises are exposed and it becomes evident that he hasn’t delivered on creating a better life for his supporters. As the midterm elections showed, even when the economy is thriving, the president is vulnerable given his failure to act on health care, rising college tuition, slowing wage growth, rising inequality and a crumbling infrastructure — all of which Trump promised to repair. It's the bread-and-butter issues on which Trump has laid himself open to attack and not his dubious relationship with the law.

At some point, the establishments need to take responsibility for their past failures and draw respective lessons from them. Populist supporters are neither Hillary Clinton’s "basket of deplorables" nor an exclusive club of homophobic racists. They are rather disillusioned victims of economic disruptions that are beyond their control. As long as there is no accounting for all the establishment gushing about how technological innovation and globalization were supposed to raise all boats and then didn't, many voters will distrust existing institutions and support political arsonists.

[ToBeFair]

Another fantastic must read article by journalist Aaron Mate on impeachment.

https://www.thenation.com/article/uk...dal-democrats/

It is worth asking why Trump’s behavior was already deemed impeachment-worthy before such critical pieces of evidence were available. And given how many immoral and destructive acts Trump commits daily, it is also worth asking why this one was deemed to be, in the words of Representative Adam Schiff, the president’s “most serious misconduct thus far.”

The answer is not difficult. In Washington, elites generally face consequences for the harm they cause not to the general population but to other members of the club. The standard was laid bare in Watergate, when Richard Nixon faced impeachment not for mass murder in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, but for targeting the opposing elite faction and trying to cover it up. George W. Bush surely could have been impeached over the Iraq invasion if not for the fact that his crime against humanity was carried out with bipartisan support.

In the era of Trump, prominent Democratic and media figures have shaped their “Resistance” around the imperatives of the national security state and hostility to Trump’s occasional deviations. That is what gave us Russiagate, where US intelligence officials suspected Trump of being a Russian agent for breaking with bipartisan hostility toward Moscow. Ukrainegate also originates with the national security state. Its whistle-blower hails from the CIA, and his sources occupy nearby perches, including inside the White House. The prevailing concern is not just Trump’s alleged corruption but also, in the words of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, that “Russia has a hand in this.”

…

For Democrats to once again oppose Trump via a militarist, Cold War “scandal” risks more danger for Ukraine, Russia, and their own 2020 prospects. We all know how the last one turned out: three years of innuendo, discredited “bombshells,” and an investigation that not only found no Trump-Russia conspiracy but, upon scrutiny, almost no actual contact between Trump and Russia—insofar as “Russia” means the government that his campaign supposedly conspired with, not just Russian passport-holders or people who claim to know them. It should now be clear what Russiagate meant for the cause of defeating Trump in 2020. The collusion hype not only sidelined focus on the harm Trump has done to the country and the world but gave him the additional gift of vindication when it collapsed.

As much as we may hope that a Ukrainegate-centered impeachment proceeding could curb Trump’s other abuses, there are no reasons to expect that outcome. Instead, we risk another all-consuming affair much like Russiagate, with political and media energy consumed by minutiae that few Americans care about, and a hawkish worldview once again deemed synonymous with being anti-Trump. The fact that Schiff, the top congressional promoter of discredited Trump-Russia innuendo, is once again leading the charge does not inspire confidence. Schiff has already falsely declared that the whistle-blower alleged that “Trump pressured Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Biden” and that this allegation was “Confirmed.” In fact, the whistle-blower only alleged that Trump pressured Zelensky to investigate Biden, not “manufacture dirt” on him, and the transcript does not “confirm” otherwise.

Republicans will also get ample opportunities to highlight Democratic double standards. Even if Trump and Giuliani’s worst suspicions about Biden are incorrect, what is already established is damning enough. Hunter Biden obtained his lucrative board seat on a Ukrainian gas company despite having no experience in the country, and just months after his father’s administration backed a coup that overthrew its government. That very fact will weaken any Democratic effort to highlight Trump’s efforts to enrich himself and his family through the Oval Office. Republicans will also point to the irony of Trump’s being accused of seeking 2020 election help from Ukraine after Democratic Party officials already received such help in 2016. And after they take their turns hammering Biden’s dealings and Democrats’ hypocrisy, Senate Republicans will inevitably vote for Trump’s acquittal.

Throughout Russiagate, the interests of national security state officials converged with those of the neoliberal Democrats who lost to Trump in 2016. The unwavering focus on a conspiracy theory allowed Democratic elites to stave off the transformation that should have resulted from losing to a billionaire con man who posed as a working-class champion. Ukrainegate grants them yet one more extension: Instead of a Democratic primary where issues like Medicare For All, education, climate change, immigrant rights, militarism, and class warfare are addressed like never before, the country risks another incessant fixation with an intra-elite battle that relegates voters, and their concerns, to the margins. Democrats risk not only sidelining voters but their own best opportunity to reach them.

[ToBeFair]

The question that is not asked, but should be asked to media elites:

And if Joe Biden wants to be President then he’s going to have to stop pretending there isn’t, stop barking ‘ask the right questions!’ at reporters to deter them from doing their jobs, and start answering some difficult questions.

And this all leads me to the question I really want to ask, and it’s this: what would the same Democrats who say there’s nothing to see here be saying if we swap Hunter Biden’s name for Donald Trump Jr?

We all know the answer.

They’d be screaming blue murder about nepotism, conflict, corruption and collusion.
That’s why it’s time the media stepped up their investigations into the Bidens and Ukraine and put the same heat into those that they’re currently, perfectly correctly, putting into Trump’s phone call.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nt-answer.html

[aklemalp]

He'll be fine. Another electoral college win. Hehe

[ToBeFair]

[ToBeFair]

[ToBeFair]

পরের জন্য ফাঁদ পাতলে নিজেই ফান্দে পরে

[Zeeshan]

So I take it you are not on the Dem-impeachment wagon as the rest of us huh 'Fair?

[ToBeFair]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
So I take it you are not on the Dem-impeachment wagon as the rest of us huh 'Fair?

The more media binge upon Ukrainegate and pretend that there is no there there in Biden Inc's obvious pay to play corruption, the more they vindicate Trump's claim that impeachment is a political coup. You may deny it but this is a FACT. Trump is winning.

Honestly introspecting about why Dems lost in 2016 and accepting the root causes that caused Trump would have deflated Trump. Instead, Democrats chose to live in denial, because neoliberalism and market fundamentalism do not solve any of the problems plaguing America and the world, and thus to shift focus, they settled on deep state supported RussiaGate and now UkraineGate, and this naked denial emboldens Trump everyday.

If DemonRats think they can win by obfuscating, they are in for a rude awakening. Trump is the KING of muddying the waters. They will never outsmart Trump in this game.

Results came in: Trump's approval number is going up - and everyone could foresee it including this armchair BC political pundit - but corrupt corporate democrats and MSM couldn't.

President Trump’s approval ticked up to 49 percent — its highest mark this year, according to a new Hill-HarrisX survey released on Wednesday.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46...since-december

[Shingara]

Bhai, apni Trump er pisey lagsen ken ?
Despite not being a robust diplomatic politician, I have respect for the guy how he is putting the US interests first. He is also the only president in recent years who hasn't waged war somewhere during his term. Even Obama went to Libya!

[al Furqaan]

Foreign policy is increasingly disorganized and choatic:

1) North Korea - no deal, no change
2) Iran - lack of response to Iranians shooting down a drone and then the attack on Saudi oil --> Martin Indyk reports that the Saudis have made overtures to the Iranians to squash the Sunni-Shia beef using Iraq and Pakistan as mediators.
3) Erdogan convinces Trump to let him handle the Kurds of Northern/Easter Syria

But the only thing that matters to voters is domestic politics, chiefly the booming economy (Obama's legacy)...if the economy slows as most analysts warn, that would take away the only positive thing Trump has *achieved* in his first term.

[aklemalp]

Whoa, lots of ****waving goin on in this thread l l

[NoName]

Wow, the man just sold out their Kurdish allies to the Turks. Most likely for a tower in Istanbul

[Shingara]

Those Kurds near the Turkish border want their own country and have been responsible for numerous bomb explosions in the past in Turkey. US should have never allied with them.
Turkey is doing the right thing by going inside Syria and setting up a buffer zone where they can return Syrian refugees. Turkey ar koto khowabey eder?

[ToBeFair]

Originally Posted by Shingara
Those Kurds near the Turkish border want their own country and have been responsible for numerous bomb explosions in the past in Turkey. US should have never allied with them.
Turkey is doing the right thing by going inside Syria and setting up a buffer zone where they can return Syrian refugees. Turkey ar koto khowabey eder?

Disagree. Arrogant Erdogan is trying to score some cheap political points domestically by murdering kurds here. And Trump allowed it because he was given a Trump tower in Istanbul.

For Erdogan, it will be a mistake. He developed Turkey but power has now corrupted him and made him a lunatic. He is taking a bite bigger than his mouth and it is a grossly immoral bite.

The solution is not US military presence. US can ask EU to put economic pressure and if they do so, Erdogan will back away. The real solution is making a new country Kurdistan by taking lands from Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
The more media binge upon Ukrainegate and pretend that there is no there there in Biden Inc's obvious pay to play corruption, the more they vindicate Trump's claim that impeachment is a political coup. You may deny it but this is a FACT. Trump is winning.

Honestly introspecting about why Dems lost in 2016 and accepting the root causes that caused Trump would have deflated Trump. Instead, Democrats chose to live in denial, because neoliberalism and market fundamentalism do not solve any of the problems plaguing America and the world, and thus to shift focus, they settled on deep state supported RussiaGate and now UkraineGate, and this naked denial emboldens Trump everyday.

If DemonRats think they can win by obfuscating, they are in for a rude awakening. Trump is the KING of muddying the waters. They will never outsmart Trump in this game.

Results came in: Trump's approval number is going up - and everyone could foresee it including this armchair BC political pundit - but corrupt corporate democrats and MSM couldn't.



https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46...since-december

Kind of agree....

Real this...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...e-rival-229341

[NoName]

Not to mention currently there are about 10k ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds, what do you think will happen when they're too busy dealing or dying fighting the Turks?

This was right after the US persuaded the Kurds to abandon their defenses under the promise they would provide protection and now the are left out high and dry.

[ToBeFair]

Adam Schiff says whistleblower may not testify in impeachment probe




Reason: He says there is concern for the person’s safety.
Actual Reason: There is no there there, the whole thing is conjecture and innuendo, and if the whistle blower (read deep state actor) is called to testify, he will faceplant like the last Bob"OutsideMyPurview"Mueller testimony

Another humiliating loss for the Dems, particularly for arrogant Adam Schiff, whom Trump had rightly called Adam Schitt, because he always bites bigger than he can chew.

[Shingara]

Originally Posted by ToBeFair
Disagree. Arrogant Erdogan is trying to score some cheap political points domestically by murdering kurds here. And Trump allowed it because he was given a Trump tower in Istanbul.

For Erdogan, it will be a mistake. He developed Turkey but power has now corrupted him and made him a lunatic. He is taking a bite bigger than his mouth and it is a grossly immoral bite.

The solution is not US military presence. US can ask EU to put economic pressure and if they do so, Erdogan will back away. The real solution is making a new country Kurdistan by taking lands from Turkey, Iraq, and Syria.

Turkish Kurds have been carrying out terrorist attacks inside Turkey for quite some time now. Turkey is right to create a buffer zone to prevent US armed Syrian Kurds to cause potential problems by linking up with Turkish Kurds. It is also right to send Syrian refugees back to this Syrian area once they take control.

US presence should never have been there. Asad has done well with Russian help. Once these Kurdis are out of the way, Syria can again be reunified and the rebuilding of the whole country can commence. EU putting economic pressure? LOL. Turkey is a strong country and does not need to depend on anyone like these EU countries.

USAF Incirlik airbase is also present in Turkey. US was right to assess what is more important.

Make Kurdistan by taking chunks from Syria, Turkey and Iraq ? Ora ki angul chushbey.

Originally Posted by NoName
Not to mention currently there are about 10k ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds, what do you think will happen when they're too busy dealing or dying fighting the Turks?

This was right after the US persuaded the Kurds to abandon their defenses under the promise they would provide protection and now the are left out high and dry.

Those ISIS prisoners can get bombed for all I care. That is what they deserve, period.

[Fazal]

I agree with Singara with this issue.


The suffering of Syria's citizen need to stop, and by dividing the country and making them refuge and bombing them for all end has no ending. Hillary and Obama with help of Saudi,Turkey, Kurd and ISIS created this mess that had no end game.


This may be brutal, but I can see some sun rising behind the smoke.