Where would you rank Mushi among the 10 current Wicketkeepers?

[ahnaf]

Interesting. Stats are deceiving when it about mushy but when it about others its fine.. Bhule onno desher forum e chole ashlam naki?

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by ahnaf
Interesting. Stats are deceiving when it about mushy but when it about others its fine.. Bhule onno desher forum e chole ashlam naki?

haha yeah. I feel like after SRK, Mushy is the most hated/criticized player in BC.

[Fazal]

Originally Posted by ahnaf
Interesting. Stats are deceiving when it about mushy but when it about others its fine.. Bhule onno desher forum e chole ashlam naki?

Not at all. (overall) Stats are sometimes deceiving when we are trying to compare a relatively young/newer player who suddenly showed progress by leaps and bounds recently. And (overall) stats are also deceiving when an established player show some sign of lack of performance in recent time. Example of the first case is Sarfaraz. Example of second case can be any aging superstar at the end of their career (not necessarily Rahim is a good example as he still in the middle of his career and still has lots to offer with the bat).

When the thread topic is international in nature, and if praising international player hurts your feeling, may be this is not the right thread for you.

Cricket is a different game, praising individual international/opponent player is not a crime, nor should it be looked as so negatively.

[mufi_02]

^prob is not hurting feelings but double standard when it comes to comparing players. Referring to this table --

Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Sarfraz is averaging almost 70 this year. Check. Can't replace him.
De Villiers. Check
De kock. Check.
Dhoni. Check
Butler. Check. 66 Ave.
Watling. Played higher competition. Averaging the same. Really showed character playing with the tail.
Chandimal. Played higher competition. Averaging the same almost.
Chakabva. 40+. Par.

Mushi has 38.7 right now in this year.

So 8th/9th, or may be joined 8 on batting.

His WK'ing has gone down. Not better than any of the others mentioned.

Sarfraz's current year average was taken to justify his case. Ok fair point. His career avg of 41 and 24 not taken.

Then Chandimal's current year average was ignored (which is 32/27 for test/odi respectively) and overall career average was taken (45/30) which is higher to justify his superiority.

But for Chakabva again current year average was taken while his career average is only 25 and 16!! Yes 16 in ODI. But ignored.

Jos Buttler played only 3 innings and so his average of 60+ doesn't say much. And I have seen his keeping against India and it was substandard.

Watling gets the nod because superior competition.

So statistics can be read many ways and accommodated to justify any case. In this case no standard method was used.

[ahnaf]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
^prob is not hurting feelings but double standard when it comes to comparing players. Referring to this table --




Sarfraz's current year average was taken to justify his case. Ok fair point. His career avg of 41 and 24 not taken.

Then Chandimal's current year average was ignored (which is 32/27 for test/odi respectively) and overall career average was taken (45/30) which is higher to justify his superiority.

But for Chakabva again current year average was taken while his career average is only 25 and 16!! Yes 16 in ODI. But ignored.

Jos Buttler played only 3 innings and so his average of 60+ doesn't say much. And I have seen his keeping against India and it was substandard.

Watling gets the nod because superior competition.

So statistics can be read many ways and accommodated to justify any case. In this case no standard method was used.

Thanks mufi bhai. I couldn't have said it better

[Tigers_eye]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
^prob is not hurting feelings but double standard when it comes to comparing players. Referring to this table --

You can never hurt my feelings. (RW Chakabva (Zim) has 45+ now.)
The Table was current year comparison somewhat.

I just didn't put De Villiers, Dhoni the regular performers stat in there. Who are far better than him.

Let's do this. Before Marriage and after Marriage.
Before marriage: AVG 33.31. 3 centuries. Highest 200.
After marriage: AVG 28. With a 23 notout. No hundred. Highest 64.

At home, you are to up your stats. Especially against inferior attacks. Dipping below your average is a SIGN.

[mufi_02]

Chaka had 4 innings so far this year (0,25,101,65) and so his avg 45 makes no case of him being a better batsman Mushy. On top of that, you don't even use mean for a sample set of data like that which has such extreme outliers. For this, we need to use standard deviation which is extremely high (45) and thus the high inconsistency. Finally, inferring from only 4 data points is ludicrous in statistics.

As I said, data can be read in many ways. S Rajesh articles makes a compelling argument of us not being worthy of Test cricket. Using the same data, we can establish another case which will show BD a rising force in test cricket (comparing 2000-2008 and then 2008-present which will be boosted by winning against WI C team and Zims).

So avg/mean is only an incomplete tool of an already poorly retrieved data in this case.

Dhoni, ABDV are a class apart and in their own league. But anyone who believes Mushy's batting is worse than Chandimal/Chakabva/P Jaya/Watling/Butler has a poor grasp of the game or just stubborn enough not to accept real facts.

*only applies for batting. keeping skills is another issue.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
How does BD have the 2nd best avg with the 3rd worst keeper?

Sarfraz averages 40 overall, very poor averages outside Asia. Mushy averages the same over a longer period of time. Has scored outside Asia.

Haven't seen sarfraz play but he's most likely another hack.

BTW I have more ridiculous stats: Ashraful averages more than Mominul and is thus a better batsman. Criteria: all matches I've watched live on big screen TV.

Yeah so, Misbah just scored the fastest ton in history. Is he as good as Viv? better than Dravid and Tendy?

Mushy can attack when he wants to, he mostly plays as a proper test batsman. He is amongst the most versatile batsman around right now. Just because he's shitty as a keeper does not mean his batting is equally poor. And just because he has a poor series at home vs ZIM doesn't ruin the last 2-3 years of his stellar batting performances.

Let Sarfraz play some bigger knocks for longer period of time. Blasting a AUS team on tailor made surfaces in UAE in 40 C heat with no Cummins, Pattinson, and hot-cold Johnson is good, but lets not go gaga.

[ahnaf]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
Chaka had 4 innings so far this year (0,25,101,65) and so his avg 45 makes no case of him being a better batsman Mushy. On top of that, you don't even use mean for a sample set of data like that which has such extreme outliers. For this, we need to use standard deviation which is extremely high (45) and thus the high inconsistency. Finally, inferring from only 4 data points is ludicrous in statistics.

As I said, data can be read in many ways. S Rajesh articles makes a compelling argument of us not being worthy of Test cricket. Using the same data, we can establish another case which will show BD a rising force in test cricket (comparing 2000-2008 and then 2008-present which will be boosted by winning against WI C team and Zims).

So avg/mean is only an incomplete tool of an already poorly retrieved data in this case.

Dhoni, ABDV are a class apart and in their own league. But anyone who believes Mushy's batting is worse than Chandimal/Chakabva/P Jaya/Watling/Butler has a poor grasp of the game or just stubborn enough not to accept real facts.

*only applies for batting. keeping skills is another issue.

well said

[BanCricFan]

Originally Posted by ahnaf
.. Bhule onno desher forum e chole ashlam naki?

Na bhai apni thik jaigai ashchen. Kintu bhule gesen shudhu etai je amrai ashole amader porom shotru. As they say, "with friends like this who needs enemies". Just look at how a ShamCha panders to foreign cricketers and audience while he "disdainfully" puts down our cricketers at will. He doesn't even shy away from having a go at Bangladesher Jaan.

On topic: I thought we were discussing Mushy the wicketkeeper. But, everyone seems to be talking Mushy the batter. Well Volkes, if I am not mistaken Mushy is averaging over 50 in recent times beside being the captain and the Wickie. He is also the most successful Bangladeshi captain to date. Oh! We do like to complain!

I would like to echo our coach Jamie Siddons here. Little Mushfiqur, indeed, the Golden Boy of Bangladesh cricket.

[Tiger444]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Yeah so, Misbah just scored the fastest ton in history. Is he as good as Viv? better than Dravid and Tendy?

Mushy can attack when he wants to, he mostly plays as a proper test batsman. He is amongst the most versatile batsman around right now. Just because he's shitty as a keeper does not mean his batting is equally poor. And just because he has a poor series at home vs ZIM doesn't ruin the last 2-3 years of his stellar batting performances.

Let Sarfraz play some bigger knocks for longer period of time. Blasting a AUS team on tailor made surfaces in UAE in 40 C heat with no Cummins, Pattinson, and hot-cold Johnson is good, but lets not go gaga.

Not sure if this post was for me but by the looks of it it does seem like it. I wasn't trying to put Mushy down. He's obviously one of our best players. I was just trying to say Sarfraz isn't a hack. I watched him and the guy can play. I know he needs to prove himself more, no question but he's had an impressive start to his career.

Let's be honest here, if we had Sarfraz playing for us we'd be labeling him as a very good talent and a potential world class player.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
Chaka had 4 innings so far this year (0,25,101,65) and so his avg 45 makes no case of him being a better batsman Mushy. On top of that, you don't even use mean for a sample set of data like that which has such extreme outliers. For this, we need to use standard deviation which is extremely high (45) and thus the high inconsistency. Finally, inferring from only 4 data points is ludicrous in statistics.

As I said, data can be read in many ways. S Rajesh articles makes a compelling argument of us not being worthy of Test cricket. Using the same data, we can establish another case which will show BD a rising force in test cricket (comparing 2000-2008 and then 2008-present which will be boosted by winning against WI C team and Zims).

So avg/mean is only an incomplete tool of an already poorly retrieved data in this case.

Dhoni, ABDV are a class apart and in their own league. But anyone who believes Mushy's batting is worse than Chandimal/Chakabva/P Jaya/Watling/Butler has a poor grasp of the game or just stubborn enough not to accept real facts.

*only applies for batting. keeping skills is another issue.

Excellently explained. Although I think the effort you are exerting is for a futile cause. Certain posters (including but not exclusively T_e) have always had a problem with Mushy. Performance has nothing to do with it. Sure enough Mushy will be back with the bat and score runs against better quality opposition. It's just a matter of time. He works too hard to not succeed.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Fazal
Sometimes stats are deceiving. I have this much to say... based on current performance (wicket keeping as well as batting) if I have to chose a wicket keeper between Sharfaraz and Rahim for my TEST or ODI team, at this moment I would chose Sharfaraz over Rahim.

This is based on what I have seen (in my own eyes) in their recent games ( PAK vs AUS, PAK vs NZ, BAN vs WI and BAN vs ZIM).

While Rahim constantly bats at #7 now days with the excuse that he is doing wicket keeping duties, Sharfaraz (at that time still not established) doesn't hesitate to take the opportunity to play as an opener while still designated wicket keeper.

Mushfiq hasn't batted at number 7 in Tests in around three years. In West Indies, he batted at number five and scored a century. No keeper in the world bats that high up in Tests currently. Sarfaraz opened the innings in ODIs. Mushfiq has been our long-term number-4 in ODIs for a while now. In fact I can't even remember the last time he batted at number 7 in ODIs. That's some shocking ignorance.

[Tiger444]

The main problem with Mushy is his poor keeping and in Tests they have a much bigger emphasis on keeping and in some cases they pick specialist keepers. Hate to say it keeping alone mushy could only make our side or Zimbabwe's.

Batting wise however Mushy has to be amongst the best. Can't deny it. I think Dhoni's the only one you can really make no argument as to whose better. ABDV would also be another one but he's not keeping anymore. The rest of the players you can definitely make an argument for Mushy.

[shuziburo]

In batting, probably #4. In keeping, #8.

[koushik]

In Test ABDV is Best
In ODI MSD

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