Bangladesh vs India One-off Test. Discussion

[Roy_1]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Flintoff, Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Streak, Vettori are well below him. Only Ashwin is comparable from current era and he is a significantly inferior batsman, based on the stats.

They are well below whom Furqaan da? Shakib?

[Gowza]

Yeah on stats some of them might be bellow shakib but I'd think most in the cricket word would consider kapil, botham and hadlee ahead of shakib, a lot would probably consider flintoff ahead as well. Streak and Vettori I don't think there is much question although they were both really good all rounders, I know some who consider Vettori better than shakib, cricket can be very subjective.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
My original point was about batsman.. not about world class all rounders. Shakib is a world class all rounder imo but he bats too high in our batting lineup simply because the rest are pathetic. If we had a solid top six i think Shakib would be an ideal no. 7 where he could play his natural attacking game. You don't see this kind of irresponsible batting from any of the great players of other teams.

With regards to Tamim.. he is too inconsistent. One innings he looks a million dollars and the next 3 innings he will throw his wicket away. He gets out to bad balls way too often. He gets out after reaching a fifty way too often. While chasing he is guaranteed to fail if it is a high scoring target. All of these things, in my opinion is preventing him from being a great player he can be. Both Tamim and Shakib get out to bad balls more often than good balls and as senior cricketers this is a crime. We could have saved one test match in NZ if these two stepped up when it mattered most.

Several points here:

1) How do we define world class? I propose 3 different statistical methods of defining the term:

- set absolute value eg batsmen averaging 45 or higher
- set rank eg top 10 batsmen in the world in a given time period
- set standard deviations above the mean in a given time period

Which do you think would be best? I think the latter is the best tool.

We know that all stats in cricket will be nearly normally distributed, and following the 68-95-99.7 rule, that 16% of values lie 1+ standard deviation away from the mean in either direction. I think its fair to say that the top 16% of Test cricketers constitute the "world class" faction.

2) Based on the above, Shakib may not be a world class batsmen. In fact, possibly only Mominul would qualify. However, I am speculating a bit but I think that Tamim and Shakib can get their averages a little higher by the time they play 100 Tests (if they play that many). Shakib may be at his ceiling, but Tamim I feel can continue to push his average well beyond 40.

3) Most dismissals in Test cricket are from "bad balls". There are very few unplayable deliveries - thats why they are so special - and only a handful of those get wickets. Most batsmen throw their wicket away most of the time. The difference between Ashraful and Tendulkar was that Tendulkar waits until he has scored a substantial number of runs before "throwing his wicket away".

4) Tamim's contribution to our recent Test successes has been understated. Yes he threw his wicket away during the NZ tour...but he did so only once, albeit in a clutch situation.

Since 2010, here are some of Tamim's critical knocks:

95 and 70 vs NZ in 2013 to draw the match, and the series. Faced 218 deliveries in the 2nd innings to ensure a draw. Lot of pressure cuz NZ had a 155 run 1st innings lead.

Faced 102 deliveries vs SL in 2013 to draw the Test in the 4th innings.

206 vs PAK in 2015...drew the Test after facing a 296 run 1st innings deficit.

104 and 40 vs ENG...in a low scoring win...also took charge of captaincy to script a sensational win.

His failures in that time include:

4th innings failure vs WI in 2012...only needed 240 to win, 80 overs to save the Test.

64 vs WI in 2014...a big knock could have helped save the Test for Bangladesh.

His last dismissal vs NZ last week.

5) Similarly, Mominul's contributions are solid. Hit a 100 in the 3rd innings while battling a fever to save the series for Bangladesh. HIt a 4th innings century vs SL to save another Test. His 66 vs England in the Test win was our 3rd highest score in the match and the reason we didn't face a large 1st innings deficit.

[Neel Here]

Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Question lies has there ever been a one off test match before??????????????????????????

rare but not that rare. quite a few over the years.
here you go : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...ds/335431.html

SA in Zim
NZ in Zim
Pak in Zim
BD in Zim
BD in NZ
NZ in Pak
Ind in BD
SL in Eng
Aus in Ind
Pak in NZ
SA in Zim
WI in SL
Eng in SL
Zim in Ind
Pak in NZ
Ind in Zim
SA in WI
SL in Eng
SL in Ind
last one from 1990 !

[5tonne]

Originally Posted by Roy_1
They are well below whom Furqaan da? Shakib?

They are well below the 'combol'!

[RealSports]

I don't know why, but I have a funny feeling Bangladesh will win this lone-test. My XI will be: Tamim, Imrul, Mominul, Mushfiqur, Shakib, Liton, Shabbir, Mehedi, Taijul, Kamrul and Taskin. It depends on the track though. Should've been a 2 match test series, but I'm glad India have picked a full strength squad despite playing a lot of Cricket lately. Our batting looks solid despite no Mahmudullah. I know conditions are in India, but there's not much difference to those in Bangladesh. Playing in New Zealand recently would've done Bangladesh a load of good, but this time the challenge will be against spin – probably the best in the world at the moment.

[Roy_1]

Originally Posted by RealSports
I don't know why, but I have a funny feeling Bangladesh will win this lone-test. My XI will be: Tamim, Imrul, Mominul, Mushfiqur, Shakib, Liton, Shabbir, Mehedi, Taijul, Kamrul and Taskin. It depends on the track though. Should've been a 2 match test series, but I'm glad India have picked a full strength squad despite playing a lot of Cricket lately. Our batting looks solid despite no Mahmudullah. I know conditions are in India, but there's not much difference to those in Bangladesh. Playing in New Zealand recently would've done Bangladesh a load of good, but this time the challenge will be against spin – probably the best in the world at the moment.

This is a good post, I liked the way how you are confidant and optimistic about your team , considering most of the BD posters here seem to have already lost the match in their heads

BTW pitch is gonna be flat most probably, your batsmen will have a bigger role to play here than spinners, in order to draw or snatch a victory BD will have to play out of their skin. I am hoping for a little better competition this time than what we saw against England, let's see how it turns out.

Yes you are going to face the best spin attack in the world, unlike anything you've known so far

[Eshen]

Don't see Rabbi or Roy being useful on this pitch. I would rather play Shafiul alongside Taskin.

Sincerely hope the management will finally bench Riyad, promote Mushfiq to #4, and give the gloves to Liton.

Also hope to see Miraz finally coming good with the bat.

[IndYeah]

As an India fan, I am really curious to see how our pace bowlers do in this test. Anything less than 7 wickets over the 2 innings will be a disappointment. Shami's absence will be felt, but even the likes of Bhuvi and Yadav need to grab this opportunity to improve their stats.

[simon]

Few battles I am looking forward to :

Sakib vs Ashwin
Taskin vs Koheli
Mushy vs Indian fans
Miraz vs Jadeja
Ata vs Shastri

[Gowza]

Really looking forward to seeing miraz here, hopefully he has a good match, also hoping sabbir and Liton both play and have good matches, they are the future of BD batting.

[tiger1000]

Originally Posted by Roy_1
This is a good post, I liked the way how you are confidant and optimistic about your team , considering most of the BD posters here seem to have already lost the match in their heads

BTW pitch is gonna be flat most probably, your batsmen will have a bigger role to play here than spinners, in order to draw or snatch a victory BD will have to play out of their skin. I am hoping for a little better competition this time than what we saw against England, let's see how it turns out.

Yes you are going to face the best spin attack in the world, unlike anything you've known so far

500+ pitches are so awful to watch, need to keep it a par 280-330 for it to be an exciting test...

[Match Adda]

India media trying to be all over musy comment(I don't think it's a oitihasik match) which I agreed with musy... ato India ke nie bara Barir time nai..if musy win the toss and bat.. we have a good chance. Our players up for this only match, they will be pumped up. Good to see musy aggressive attitude.. ato da da kore match harar time nai. Go tigers.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Don't see Rabbi or Roy being useful on this pitch. I would rather play Shafiul alongside Taskin.

Sincerely hope the management will finally bench Riyad, promote Mushfiq to #4, and give the gloves to Liton.

Also hope to see Miraz finally coming good with the bat.

I would also prefer to see Taskin and Shafiul as the only seam options. But I think Rabbi will make the cut over Shafiul because the ball will reverse in the Hydro conditions (sunny and hot). Taskin was reversing it nicely in Wellington on day 5...will be interesting to see how consistent he is in better reversing conditions.

But the only quick we have that can swing the new ball is Shafiul and the now discarded Robiul. Shafiul also can bat a bit.

[Gowza]

Abu hider can swing, needs to get a few opportunities where possible.

What sort of pacer is Dewan sabbir? He's done a lot better this season. Ebadat not doing too bad either so far.

[sameer_st]

I liked what habibul bashar had to say about this test match, without creating any unnecessary drama.


http://m.timesofindia.com/sports/cri...w/56958988.cms

[Vepu]

Originally Posted by simon
Few battles I am looking forward to :

Sakib vs Ashwin Pandya
Taskin vs kohli
Mushy vs Indian fans
Miraz vs Jadeja
Ata vs Shastri

Now it makes sense

[Rinathq]

Kohli Vs Mominul will be what I will watch out for...

Kohli is India's best player and Mominul is ours in this format....

[NoName]

Originally Posted by sameer_st
I liked what habibul bashar had to say about this test match, without creating any unnecessary drama.


http://m.timesofindia.com/sports/cri...w/56958988.cms

In regards to the article underneath, it would do wonders for Mehedi if he can learn something from Ashwin

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
Kohli Vs Mominul will be what I will watch out for...

Kohli is India's best player and Mominul is ours in this format....

I think maybe kohli v sabbir would be good, reckon sabbir likes hard fought competition and kohli could get the best out of him, but mominul bats up the order like kohli so it is a more fair comparison.

[Rinathq]

Originally Posted by Gowza
I think maybe kohli v sabbir would be good, reckon sabbir likes hard fought competition and kohli could get the best out of him, but mominul bats up the order like kohli so it is a more fair comparison.

Sabbir is BC's Kohli. But he doesnt have half of Mominul's potential in reality. And comparing the best in the world vs a completely unproven player in this format makes no sense to me

[Rana Melb]

This test might end up draw..depends how bd batsmen will apply em. Only threat for me is ashwin. Bd needs to bat first for draw result.

[Gowza]

Originally Posted by Rinathq
Sabbir is BC's Kohli. But he doesnt have half of Mominul's potential in reality. And comparing the best in the world vs a completely unproven player in this format makes no sense to me

Disagree, sabbir has tons of potential, he hasn't established himself like mominul has but his career is still young and he has plenty of time and potential to be successful. Actually I think it's pretty insulting to say sabbir doesn't have half the potential mominul has.

The sabbir comparison was more about similar style and competition, mominul has a better record but his style is completely different to kohli's. and if you read my post properly you would have seen me say the mominul comparison is a fairer one because of that.

[simon]

I will go with
Momin vs Pujara.

Two cool headed silent killer.

[al Furqaan]

Sabbir's style is similar to Kohli's...they have similar technique's and trigger motions. Similar stance, etc.

Mominul's style is similar to lefty Tendulkar, although their stances are very different. But both are short, technically compact, free-flowing without being a Warner like bruiser, and both love to drive on the off side all along the ground.